Megayacht News Radio Podcast With Yomira
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35:03
SPEAKERS
(voiceover), Diane Byrne, Amanda Armstrong, Neil Hornsby
Diane Byrne 00:04
Welcome, everyone, to Megayacht News Radio. Today I have two guests, Amanda Armstrong and Neil Hornsby, two longtime charter brokers who are the founders of a relatively new company called Yomira. Yomira, which means “your ocean” in the ancient Sanskrit language, is not your customary yacht charter firm. Amanda and Neil realized that the longtime “yacht first” ideology, if you will, in yacht charter just wasn’t right for the changes that have naturally been occurring among clientele. So they’re making your charter experience less complex and more interactive, which we’ll talk about, along with what else they see as real needs and desires among charter guests like you. So Amanda and Neil, welcome to Megayacht News Radio.
Amanda Armstrong 00:55
Thank you very much for having us.
Neil Hornsby 00:56
Exciting to be here. Thank you.
Diane Byrne 00:59
Wonderful to have you. Thanks so much for joining me. So for the benefit of people who are not familiar with you, I’d appreciate it if you could each describe your respective backgrounds in yachting and charter. So Amanda, why don’t you go first, and then Neil, you can jump in.
Amanda Armstrong 01:15
Thank you. Um, I think initially, my parents were a little bit disappointed that I didn’t follow my father’s footsteps as a naval barrister. I was extremely fortunate to start my career in superyachting as a personal assistant back in 2000, I think it was, so a good 20 years ago, and worked my way up through the ranks actually looking after owners and captains for a good chunk of that, and then on to be a retail charter broker. So the opportunities for honing my skills, I suppose, to help clients on on a variety of levels was, was a long time in the making; you can’t learn that sort of skill set overnight. So I was extremely lucky to have that opportunity really. And over the years, I suppose you learn that no one charter or yacht or captain is ever the same. So those experiences, good and bad, have given us the good skill set, as I say to, to, to be able to handle pretty much any opportunity that’s thrown our way. And Neil has a different, slightly more varied background to me.
Neil Hornsby 02:37
Yeah, I had one of those lucky breaks. Back in the 1980s, after I left university, I had a friend of mine who used to disappear, and come back looking very brown with lots of good stories to tell. And he was a racing crew. And he tempted me to go to the Swan World Cup regatta in Puerto Cervo back in the 1980s. And I set off and read a terminology book of yachting on my way, so I can like myself, at least aboard a boat. And I came back a year and a half later, having worked on charter boats, sailed out of the Caribbean, and spent a very good time back in my early 20s in the charter business. And then I came back I worked in the city of London for a couple of years. And I was really tempted to go away again, they will travel had the travel bug and I ended up in Australia at the America’s Cup, helping with the the New York club’s campaign to rustle back the cup from the Australians. And sadly, I wasn’t racing. But I was working on a book called Scotch Mist, which is a beautiful motorsailor, through the whole campaign. And it was just amazing. And I came back from that and thought, right, I’m slightly smitten by this whole yacht broking idea, and got involved with a company called Halsey Marine, which was one of the old, I suppose, is one of the stables where a lot of the yacht brokers pass through. And I was lucky to have my initial introduction through him and spend the last 30 years at various top yachting companies. It’s been amazing. And I’ve been very lucky actually. So that’s really my my background, I suppose into this.
Diane Byrne 04:22
Great. So some very interesting differences, but definitely some very complimentary experiences as well. So what made now the right time for you to launch your company?
Neil Hornsby 04:36
Good question. And it’s, it’s obviously been an incredibly challenging time. Very difficult time for everyone. This whole episode thanks to COVID. But we thought about it. We’ve been thinking about this for a while and the yachting business or the charter business especially the we know the best it’s it’s hit many Armageddon events. In the past, we’ve had SARS, we’ve had the Gulf War, we’ve had 911. We’ve had the global financial crisis. And there’s a lot of resilience in this industry shown throughout. And so we approach this with a big bite of confidence, a big degree of confidence that no matter the difficulty with now, that there will be a bounce back, there is then the opportunity to develop our business, and to hopefully coincide when the world starts to recover. And it gave us a good opportunity, ironically, this episode to really think deeply, I suppose about the charter business and what we can do to to create our our part in it.
Diane Byrne 05:47
Amanda, what would you say? I know in, in talking with the two of you a few weeks back, you both expressed this not concern, but an observation of how yacht charter for quite some time was very much that “yacht first” ideology, like I had said in the intro, and then something else really needed to go on. So what what was that? What role did that play, in terms of you deciding that this was a good time to form your business?
Amanda Armstrong 06:17
Well, I think just a follow up from what Neil was saying, the whole, the COVID opportunity, if you want to call it that of people just sort of self reflecting and having a bit of a bucket list and putting together what they really want to achieve, sort of played nicely into our thought process with that, with the yachting market. With just the different approach, I think, clients refocusing on what they’re trying to achieve on a holiday and then becoming a little bit more, becoming a bit more lifestyle focused more than just an escape. And that led us really nicely into just drilling down a little bit more about not just presenting the yacht as a one stop shop opportunity, but actually drilling down a little bit more and, and seeing how we could attract customers in a slightly different way. So we weren’t trying to reinvent the wheel, but just polish the way that we used our tools to a certain extent. And trying to, I think, attract a younger audience, where clients are also trying to experience something a little bit different over and above the yacht itself. A lot of companies, I think, represent yachts in a certain way. And we were just trying to come about that approach in it in a different angle. I think the market is very crowded, and if, if our expertise lends itself well to, to drilling down a bit further into client motivations, and that’s where we came, came up with the idea of a different way to, to present the yachting opportunity.
Neil Hornsby 08:02
Yeah, it’s definitely, I suppose, the analogy of a sliding scale, or the click button, click and go society yachting, definitely the luxury level, the top end, it just doesn’t happen. I don’t think it I personally don’t believe that’s the way forward and I think perhaps a catalog approach where the clients left to make a choice, deciding on the budget, or the number of guests and the location, given a few pointers, I am not entirely sure is the best way. It’s more about the motivations, the drivers, the sweet spots. And we’ve had this opportunity to really assess or really look at those sweet spots and think, what can we do to excite new clients? Ideally, ultimately, let’s get more people excited. Let’s bring them into this business that show them the wonderful things you can do on and off the off. That’s really look at that and maybe just come in at a slightly different angle to to go for the motivations and interests rather than putting a boat first and foremost, or be at their beautiful boats. We know they are but who just a slightly different approach really, which we thought possibly with this growing appetite, it seems for more curated experiences, generally, I think in the travel sector, it seemed to be the right time for us to really look at that and say, Okay, if that’s if that is the way then what are those sweet spots? What are those pillars? What are those, those things we can bring to people which hopefully will benefit all the owners out there who want more business and, and US and other brokerage companies, we will need new new clients. So that really is the driver I suppose.
Amanda Armstrong 09:44
And I think as well as not that I want to labor on COVID because it’s recording we’re all quite pleased to be hopefully seeing the back of it. But I think our experience in generally in our spectrum of skill set is has helped us sort of hold the hand of clients who are chartering during this difficult time whether that’s right from the word go that reassurance both in, in a practical sense with liaising, for example with the jet pilots, before the charter, liaising with the the agents wants to guest arrive, ensuring crew are tested during and after, before, during and after the charter and just just making that that practical approach a little bit more reassuring, as well as, as well as the contract side, which is obviously the slightly more commercial side of things with give me a bit more flexibility for people. If they can’t travel at the last moment or, or something happens, that kind of washes their plan. So I think that side of things, as well as just helped us just realize that clients need a little bit more transparency and a bit more intuition possibly in in what they are getting themselves into. But like I say, hopefully we’re on the back end of that.
Diane Byrne 11:06
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I think everybody can absolutely agree on that. You know, it’s interesting that you had just used the phrase hand holding, and even in both of your conversations just prior to this, talking about drilling down into the experiences that these individuals would like and learning much more about their motivation. It strikes me that everything you’re describing, and everything that you’re saying is very much a personal approach. And the two of you take the personal approach with the client–you are personally the one to work with the client, which is quite different than what a lot of charter firms do, where the owners of the company are really not the ones who are involved in the day to day interactions with the client. So why don’t you talk about that, too? Why was that very important to you?
Neil Hornsby 12:03
It’s a great question. I mean, basically, the You’re right, Diane, tere are very few, increasingly fewer owner-operated charter businesses, there was a time 20 odd years ago, when a lot of these firms were just 1, 2, 3-man bands. And since then, the bigger bigger corporates have gobbled a lot of the market, and it’s just a few of the smaller operators left. And it’s really quite nice to be able to bottle the experience and matter. And we’ve got 50 years now between us collectively, which is, which is great. And it’s nice to bottle that and offer that to clients who want the reassurance perhaps, of somebody who can give that type of that level of knowledge. That’s not saying there are fantastic charter brokers out there there are but it’s very nice that we’re at the end of the phone, when the client calls Amanda or myself; they get both sometimes. So that’s nice. And and it’s just great. Plus, we love what we do. I mean, first and foremost, we love what we do. It’s always been in my blood, chartering, Amanda for a long time too. And it’s really nice to be able to do that. And not get sidetracked perhaps into other things where we actually love looking after clients, and some cracking boats and what lucky people we are really. I can’t think of anything else to do. Really,
Diane Byrne 13:27
it could be a lot worse, you could be stuck inside a windowless office somewhere, right.
Neil Hornsby 13:34
But also, again, just going back at the level of the depth knowledge, the level of expertise, and I’m not just saying this lightly. This is a quite a complex thing we offer, the yacht charter business, there’s many layers to it. There’s taxation regulations, you’ve got some contractual stuff you need to wade through, there’s quite a lot there that a client has to take in. And we want to make sure that that client doesn’t get put off, and to be able to to give the type of of knowledge and the type of reassurance to us is very key. And that’s again, using that collective experience is how can we deliver this service, which, which could be a complexity, and we do have some clients who pull back. They go, ‘Oh, that’s–I didn’t realize that, that type of involvement there.’ But actually, is there a way that you can deliver the whole customer journey in a better way, and much more clear, more transparent, and ultimately, a more fun way. It’s supposed to be a fun industry. Yachting is fun. So let’s not forget that and it’s been quite interesting for us to really look at that and see if our business model can really change slightly to be able to offer clients, the actual journey of chartering should be, as I say, it should be hopefully, an enjoyable thing. So they ended up saying, ‘Wow, that was great.’ And all families had crashed. Yeah, I mean, in the ideal world, both the complex things they can write down, but I mean, ultimately, there’s no reason why a client shouldn’t love it, and not spending let’s be honest, fairly considerable, some hard earned money to go out and enjoy themselves. or burning sort of core thing, how can we make this more enjoyable?
Amanda Armstrong 15:24
I think the message of it’s all in the delivery, what someone once told me. And I think that message, whether it’s about the contract, whether it’s about an itinerary, whether it’s about what the children are keen to do, I think that message, because it’s coming directly from us, is not diluted by our team of people. I think the nature of the demographic of the clients we deal with on an international basis takes a certain intuition and learning; you can’t just jump in and know how to deal with some of these clients, or who are charming to a certain extent. So I think, I think that owner operator, a lot of our clients love the fact that it’s, it’s, it is run by us, and that they get the right information delivered in the right manner, no matter what that message is. And we know that’s going to be delivered in a really good way, depending on the client’s requirements. So that’s quite a certainly refreshing feedback from from the clients we deal with. And it’s there just to, to come on to that as well as I mean, there’s so many, there’s so many angles that you could touch on that are part of that client journey. But one of the, one of the nuances of charter is a lot about what you don’t see and what we can deliver to the clients on a basis about things that go on behind the scenes, the boat shows, that obviously, we haven’t been to the last few months, but we invest a lot of time putting in invisible work in the background, whether that’s crew or lunches on the boats. And in just assessing crew once you step on board. I remember Neil told me once you often can tell more about what the crew don’t say than what they do say, and it’s, you know, it might be raining and your shoes are still on the dock. And actually, that’s a little, little okay, so you see how the crew approach certain situations. And so there’s all these invisible activities that we do that, but we can control the amount of work that goes into it. So that’s, that’s sort of part of our key motivation, certainly from our own operator hat on, I suppose,
Diane Byrne 17:44
You know, along those same lines, and again, a few weeks ago, when we were speaking, I was very struck by how one of you or both of you I don’t recall, specifically, but you mentioned, really, that you see yourselves more as charter designers versus charter brokers. And the terminology I thought was quite interesting. Because it’s not semantics. It’s not marketing speak, right? It’s really, it’s really speaking to the heart of what you are trying to do. So can you elaborate a bit on that too?
Neil Hornsby 18:19
Sure. I can answer that one. Yeah. I mean, it’s, I suppose, again, it’s evolution, evolution of the role. Twenty or 30 years ago, “let’s find a boat”–the market wasn’t as full of yachts as it is now. But ‘let’s get a vessel” is form, first and foremost, that’s the priority now. The expectations changes we’ve seen a bit earlier. Demands have changed, curated experience seem to be a lot more on people’s minds. It’s not just about the actual boat now, as we mentioned earlier, it’s all the things with it. It’s all those nuances on board, it’s all the things that that boat can provide that will fulfill that expectation of the client, whether that’s from a recreation, sporting angle, or gastronomy angle, or whether it’s from spa and relaxation angle, there are boats obviously to fit different, different requirements. But it’s more than that. And it’s the onshore experience that is now becoming even more important. Okay, COVID aside, it’s not always going to be easy but in hopefully normal, the normal world, getting ashore, doing things to fulfill your experience, to really deliver, that’s what Yomira is really trying to major on as well is actually getting trusted land support partners–assets ashore, people we trust, people that we can trust our wonderful clients into their hands. So really fulfill that experience, whether it’s a wine tasting in Tuscany or whether it’s shark diving in French Polynesia, or, or, or whether it’s going to some extreme place to go and embed oneself in a tribe, or whether it’s just making sure you’ve got the right club, front table booking, in Porto Cervo, etc, these these these experiences are there now that people demand and expect that the whole design of your charter experience is from beginning to end, properly thought out, and working much more closely with crew. And I think it’s fair to say, crew have landed quite a bit the detail preference sheet often. And so here you go, and clients arrive, and it’s all lovely, and but actually, it’s nothing really like the preference sheet. And they really want to go and do golf, and they really want to go and have a little trip around the temple in the middle of the the Aegean or whatever it is, and the crew have to jump to and, and we’re very, we’re very, very keen to have a much closer synergy with crew at a much earlier stage, bring them into the process, get the clients excited, that’s how this journey, they’re really exciting and make sure that they are brought in. And that all is part of the designing the actual overall charter experience, beginning middle on the yacht, what the opera do, and off it. So they come back and think wow, that was a real trip that is just exceptional. It’s what we aim to deliver. I mean, some guys just want a boat and lovely, go and sit in Santa Fe and let the world go by brilliant. We love that too. But it’s more about designing that took that whole holistic experience for the whole process is really what your mirrors are trying to deliver.
Amanda Armstrong 21:45
Also, I also think that some clients don’t really know what they want. So they might want to vote, or think they might want to vote, but they’re not quite sure what it involves. And part of our main focus of how we design that charter is right from the word go of understanding the client’s motivations, what they’re trying to achieve, I think from from possibly not for your tank, or so whether that’s the conversation seem to be a little bit easier on an emotional level of what they’re trying to what they’re trying to do from their holiday, whether that’s not saying escape and do some diving or whether they want to just do some wellness programs or so that that designing is all part of the understanding of the clients, as I say motivations and requirements from that group, whether it’s their family, or or friends. And so it’s far more of a deep dive into the, into the emotional side of the clients. Being I suppose, if you will, which is that start of the process and then obviously, ties in nicely with with the practical sides of the opportunities in the middle part of the often and the add on. So it’s it’s more of a holistic–I know that’s used a lot that word–but holistic, 360 degree understanding of the client, I think is the bottom line.
Diane Byrne 23:15
You know, in terms of those off-the-yacht experiences and the references to say shark diving or maybe trekking to the top of a mountain or something really different and exciting, and, you know, maybe even off the grid, if you will, a bit, tat more adventurous spirit I think is really permeating ultra high net worth travel these days. And I think travel in general too. I think there are a lot of people who are looking for something different and more exciting. I’m wondering if you find that your experience, from the years that you’ve been in yachting, from the years you’ve been in charter, are really helping in that respect too, to help uncover these ‘wow’ opportunities that people might be seeking, even when they themselves are not entirely sure that this is what they want to do.
Neil Hornsby 24:08
Absolutely. So it’s very, very exciting. It really is. And from both the fact that owners getting more adventurous, the appetite from charters is getting more adventurous and the yachts now are being built to to be able to go to far flung places with incredible range, incredible capabilities. So that’s great and the market’s growing as a result of that, and I think as far as experience is concerned. I think what’s very important is to be realistic. I really do feel that that yes, it’s great. But is that the right adventure for this makeup, the party? Is that really going to do what they want to do? Is the yacht capable of delivering that experience to them? Does it have the right capabilities? Is it, does it have the autonomy? Obviously things like provisioning, everything else, fueling is going to be a lot more difficult. Are they, do they have the right connections? Are there the right, is there the right infrastructure to make it happen? I think you have to take it carefully. Are the distances just too crazy–they want to go and see most of the islands in Papua New Guinea or in Indonesia in a week? Well, no, you can’t, because the boat will only go 10 knots. You’ve got to temper your journey accordingly. So let’s not get too carried away. I think it’s very exciting. But equally important are the right assets in place ashore. As we mentioned, it’s great if you go to Papua New Guinea, and you want to do perhaps a tribal immersion, because it’s great and you’ve heard it’s a fantastic experience. But do you have the right assets? Are there the right people to be looking after you in these quite extreme environments? If you go to the Arctic, I mean, that’s great also, but but is the team there, are the right people or the right measures in place to be able to hand deliver your clients in that environment? Now, you’ve got to be very careful with all the checkboxes, we believe, so yes, it’s great, Diane, but I think equally, a big dose of realism. And actually, after all, equally, you can find adventure closer to home. And sure we shouldn’t get too carried away. I think this is big. It’s all in the yachting press and all asventure here and exploration there, they’re brilliant. But equally, you can find adventure close to home, so you don’t have to go completely off grid.
Diane Byrne 26:46
Right. That’s a good point, actually, because I think like what you were saying in reference to Antarctica, for example, a lot of us in the yachting media, of course have had, you know, those big eye, you know, reactions like ‘wow, Antarctica!’ because it sounds exciting. And it is really one of the most remote places on earth, if not the most remote. So it is exciting. But you can have an extraordinary experience in terms of, being an American, in Alaska, for example. So you don’t need to go so so far away, to really have such an extraordinarily unique experience.
Neil Hornsby 27:21
Yeah, yeah, it’s good to tick the bucket list off, but you’ve got to do it sensibly. And, but it’s lovely that the boats have been coming out. And there’s this very exciting things going on in the market now. And 10 years ago, we couldn’t have had this discussion probably. Now we can, and it’s great. So yeah, all the better. Really.
Diane Byrne 27:42
Right. Amanda, what would you like to say?
Amanda Armstrong 27:43
Well, I think I think yes, guest realism is important. And it’s, it is about managing the client’s expectations. For sure. That’s, that’s, that’s what we all do, I think, in this industry, and I think, you know, we have got some fantastic land based network partners to be able to deliver more extreme, exciting holidays or experiences–possibly it will be more of an experience than a holiday perhaps–but so we can, we certainly have a good 20 years plus Little Black Book of superb partners that we work with to be able to deliver those sorts of activities. But as Neil says, I think important to make sure that we don’t, one doesn’t bite off more than one can chew in order to, to manage those expectations properly. I think it is about the boat. It’s not just about the land side of things. And I think it’s important to keep that focus on what the yacht can deliver in tandem with the land based opportunities. I think otherwise, it becomes a different sort of company, if you will. So yeah, I think we always say yes, but we like to put our experience and, and background and knowledge to the test to make sure that we can really deliver what we say we can deliver.
Diane Byrne 29:10
Right, right. Good point. So one last question for you before we wrap up. In the early part of our conversation you had mentioned the importance of welcoming newer people to the charter experience. How are you trying to break down some of the barriers for them, because charter really is still very much a well kept secret.
Amanda Armstrong 29:33
Yeah, and I don’t know why. And, I mean, I think if I was going to jump in, you know, we’re all trying to encourage more people into this business. It’s been a changing animal over the last, certainly the last 10 years. I think it’s changed hugely, quickly. But both the demographic of clients and and just the way it’s it’s exposed in the media and worldwide press generally, I think, without wanting to bang a feminist drum, I think historically women haven’t been–not owned, sorry–haven’t owned superyachts in large numbers. And I think, you know, the, as we know, the springboard to owning a yacht is to charter and I think to make that, that journey a little bit more appealing, a little bit softer around the edges is certainly what we’re trying to do, for men and women. Whether that’s something more sort of light touch, all inclusive, a shorter charter or whether that’s part of a staysail program or a tag-on to a villa, that’s certainly something that we’re trying to, to explore and present a little bit more, which I think also helps owners, because it hopefully will extend their best season, for those shoulder season months that are notoriously difficult to fill outside of the summer holidays and the Christmas period. And I think our name is a deliberate choice in that–that it’s not Armstrong Hornsby Yachts, it’s Yomira, it’s “your ocean,” it’s about how you want to spend your time. And if we can just encourage a bigger diversity of people into that industry no matter how with just our sort of humble yet experienced approach, then that’s great for us. It would be my sort of just hope for the future for everybody that, that we can encourage more people to come yachting, on every level, really.
Neil Hornsby 31:44
Sure, for sure. For sure. And also, I think you touched on something quite important there, that a lot of owners, they benefit from the high demand in the peak seasons, July, August, Christmas, New Year, some holiday periods. But it’s the shoulder months, they struggle, a lot of boat owners I’m sure will agree with that. What about those June, September, October periods? What about those times when the boat should be moving? The crew should be busy? How can we make it better? How can we make it easier? For people to say ‘Actually, yeah, that’s good, let’s good competitive with the rates, let’s make it attractive, perhaps let’s do an all inclusive program so it’s an easy one stop shop, just want to check, go and have fun, you’d love it, you might come back and do it again next year, on a different boat, or at least try it.’ So some of the the things we’re trying to, to offer at the moment are a long weekend stay in the French Riviera, again travel permitting, go down, go spent a long weekend, try it out, put your foot in the water, there’s a set agenda, set itinerary, set payment, you may know what the fuel is going to be, we know roughly what the food is going to be, get these boats going. And that’s very key to us. And just also just go back a little bit, if I may on this, trying to attract more women into business, I think, again, it’s a fair comment, perhaps that all the marketing generally has been quite macho, or is quite macho. I think that’s a pretty fair statement. And so that perhaps is off putting to some people, perhaps you just want to see a different side to yachting, a bit of a softer approach that may have a different angle, perhaps. And again, that’s steering us to a little bit of a slightly different direction, possibly just trying to open up that whole dynamic of yachting. So it’s not such a macho business perhaps, and it is for more people to come out and younger and, and a different dynamic or a different demographic, rather, more people looking at yachting thanks to the some of these TV shows in the light that don’t necessarily represent yachting in the best way, but it’s getting out there. So it’s fun. It’s a challenge. It’s great. And it’s really exciting actually to be able to do.
Diane Byrne 34:11
Anything that pushes us to achieve more, I think is absolutely worth the effort and worth doing. So thanks to the two of you for being on Megayacht News Radio today. It’s been great to learn more about what you’re doing, what makes you different, and what you’re really trying to achieve in terms of bringing more people into charter and giving them a different experience, giving them a different, very personal, hands on approach. Thanks to the both of you.
Neil Hornsby 34:39
It’s a great pleasure.
Amanda Armstrong and Neil Hornsby 34:40
Thank you for having us.
Diane Byrne 34:43
Everyone, if you’d like to learn more about how you can tap into Amanda’s and Neil’s expertise, you can visit their website which is yomira.com. That’s Y, O, M, I, R, A, dot com. Have a great day, everybody. Until next time, I’m Diane Byrne.
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